Treasa Edmond: 0:00

Welcome back to Boss Responses. Buckle up folks. Today is going to be a wild ride. This episode is just a little bit longer, but you're going to want to listen to it. We're answering a question from a freelancer who is working 50 to 60 hour weeks and still barely making ends meet. There's a little bit of tough love. Okay, there's a lot of tough love in this episode. All right, let's go ahead and get into it.

Treasa Edmond: 0:31

If you're a freelancer, business owner or anyone who deals with clients, you're in the right place. I'm your host, teresa Edmond. I've been dealing with clients and running my business for nearly two decades and in that time, I've dealt with my share of doubt, imposter syndrome and not knowing what to say when a client asked a question I wasn't ready for. I created this podcast to empower you with the boss responses you need to grow your business. Each week, my guest co-host and I will bring you five episodes packed with practical insights. Monday through Thursday, we answer your questions, and Fridays, we dive deep to explore how our co-hosts embrace their role as the boss of their business. Welcome to Boss Responses. We are back for day four with Sarah Griesenbach and Sarah, I have a question for you today from Gage.

Sarah Greesonbach: 1:27

He says.

Treasa Edmond: 1:28

I've been doing social media management for two years and I've hit a plateau. It happens to all of us. Gage, I'm working 50 to 60 hours a week managing accounts for 10 clients, but I'm barely making enough to cover living expenses. I really want to interrupt and just say 50 to 60 hours a week is too much, but we'll get to that later.

Sarah Greesonbach: 1:47

I have a really funny response to this.

Treasa Edmond: 1:49

I know I could take on more clients and increase my income, but I already feel overwhelmed. I've considered hiring a VA or another social media manager to help, but after calculating the costs I'm not sure I could afford it without raising my rates and potentially losing clients. How can I scale my business to increase revenue without burning out or compromising quality? And, sarah, I think there's actually like five questions in here, so go for it.

Sarah Greesonbach: 2:18

So, gage, babe, with respect to the things we all have to do to survive, all right, no shade to that. This actually isn't a plateau. This is like a servant role and it is not a business. It's almost like you're volunteering for these companies and they're kind of paying intern fees. So to me, all of this question is about the second to last line.

Sarah Greesonbach: 2:44

I can't afford it without raising my rates and potentially losing clients. Sometimes the client just won't pay what it's worth, and those are relationships we have to walk away from. Maybe we have to upskill to leave it, maybe we have to change industries to leave it, whatever. But if your clients literally cannot pay for you to do the work that requires you to work 50 to 60 hours a week, they're simply not good clients. So I think it starts with redefining what is a good client. What's my bottom line rate? What do I have to earn to cover living expenses? And then what's my thriving fee? Like what would I have to learn to make my whole life thrive? And I think it starts there, because there is nothing you can do to work harder if you do not raise your fees. It's simply that's what math is. Won't happen, teresa, take it.

Treasa Edmond: 3:39

Yeah, that's the thing I really want to just hit on the head. I'm not sure I can afford it without raising my fees and potentially losing clients, and I just want to scream into the microphone but I won't because that would hurt everyone's ears. What is wrong with raising your rates and losing clients?

Sarah Greesonbach: 3:54

it's the fear.

Treasa Edmond: 3:56

Yeah, that's all it is. It's often what's best for your business. It's often what's best for you. If the only thing keeping you from doing both of those things is the fear, then do one and then be prepared for when the other one happens. So raise the rates and immediately find new clients. I have, let's see I'm trying to calculate years in my head and I'm very bad with numbers Probably my first 10 years I didn't really raise my rates and I'm telling you not to do that. That's a bad, bad thing to do. Once I started raising my rates and started losing clients, I'm like that's okay, I'm making up for it. I have higher rates, less clients, it's okay.

Treasa Edmond: 4:37

I got to the point where I regularly raise my rates on every new client, even if it's just five cents. I do not bring a new client in without raising my rates. And I did that with my ghostwriting more in leaps and bounds until I got to a premium rate range. And if a client bulks at the rate, they are not the client for me and that is okay, because I can do two clients at that rate where I would have had to have done 15 at my lower rate. I can do better work for them, I can provide a higher quality product and I have more peace of mind. And if I want to go do something in an afternoon like set an Asana like Sarah oh, do something in an afternoon like set an asana like Sarah I can do it. That's the thing.

Treasa Edmond: 5:22

I also do not work on client work 50 to 60 hours a week Not going to happen. I have to leave time for my own business. That takes five to 10 hours a week minimum and the rest of the time I set schedules. So I tell myself I'm only working on client work for 30 hours this week or 25. And you get your rates to the point where it all balances out. It essentially comes down to what you're willing to sacrifice, and I'm not willing to sacrifice my life for my business. My business exists to support my lifestyle, not the other way around. And I'm old and cranky at this point, people. I mean I'm not old, old, but I'm old enough. The other way around, and I'm old and cranky at this point, people, I mean I'm not old, old, but I'm old enough to be cranky. And I'm going to claim that.

Sarah Greesonbach: 6:03

I absolutely am.

Treasa Edmond: 6:04

Yes, I am a boss, and that's the thing. It's boss responses. We are the boss of our business. That means we get to decide what to do.

Sarah Greesonbach: 6:19

Can you run a business and consistently work? 50?

Treasa Edmond: 6:20

to 60 hours a week, absolutely. Who wants to Do you want to, sarah? It's a sad time. I know I can't do anything else because then I'm so tired because all I'm doing is working, not to mention almost all of the people listening to this podcast work in a creative area. You cannot be consistently high quality creative for that many hours a week and, I'm sorry, social media management. A lot of that is management stuff, but there's still a fair amount of creativity and responding to people and dealing with people and relationships and you cannot maintain that consistently at a high quality for that many hours a week.

Sarah Greesonbach: 6:53

So I'd like to put on my little devil ears and my devil tail and be the devil's advocate and grill you. Okay, earlier we said unicorn clients exist and they're not unicorns. They'll suggest that they pay you more, like that kind of thing. I think for both of us we've experienced that. So if I'm Gage and I'm saying Teresa, if I raise my rates, they'll say bye-bye and replace me. What the F do I do? What would you say to that?

Treasa Edmond: 7:20

How would you you replace them first Ooh, this is. We are in partnerships with our clients. We build relationships with our clients. We are not fricking married to our clients. We are not dating them. This is honestly about your business, and if that sounds harsh, I'm so sorry people. This is about your business and if that sounds harsh, I'm so sorry people. This is about your business. You are an employee of your business. Would you bring another employee in and expect them to do this? No, you wouldn't.

Treasa Edmond: 7:49

Because it would make you feel like an asshat extreme.

Sarah Greesonbach: 7:53

You're just not going to do that.

Treasa Edmond: 7:54

You're not. So you need to be treating yourself with the same respect you would treat any other employee. And sometimes that is making hard decisions on behalf of your business. And sometimes that is telling that client that you've worked with for 10 years and you've never raised your rate and they're paying you way under minimum wage, which we don't earn minimum wage, by the way. You're telling them I adore you, I've loved working with you.

Treasa Edmond: 8:18

This is not feasible for my business anymore. I've raised my rates on every other client up to this point. I know that's out of your budget. If you would still like to find another capacity to continue this relationship, I'm happy to do that. Otherwise, I'm happy to recommend some beginning freelancers to you who may be able to work at that rate. And then you just keep going. That's what you do. So you have to make hard decisions for your business and you have to have honest conversations with yourself first and then with your client. And if your client throws a fit and accuses you of being disloyal because you've left them after that amount of time, then they never really appreciated you anyway.

Sarah Greesonbach: 9:04

This is me doing the poetry reading, clapping with the snapping. It's poetry, that's great. I'm trying not to be dumb, but it's like so many of the questions from this week come down to our fear and our identity with ourselves.

Sarah Greesonbach: 9:18

And so Gage is saying I'm working as hard as I can, I'm doing great work, I love these clients, but I'm suffering. They need to feel the suffering. Why are you the only one who can suffer, Gage? Like their budget should feel the suffering, and if it here's the most beautiful part of it at least to me if it's not worth more money to them, maybe they shouldn't be doing it. Maybe they don't need social media if they can't pay more than minimum wage for it. Like these are the things that I'm going through in my mind.

Treasa Edmond: 9:47

So, oh, go ahead. No, go ahead. I'm sorry sir.

Sarah Greesonbach: 9:51

I think I was faking that. I had a next thing to say, so go ahead.

Treasa Edmond: 9:56

So one thing I want to add here is your clients. It's their job to grumble about your rates Sometimes. It's their job to get the most amount of work for the least amount of money so they can stretch their budget as far as it goes. It has nothing to do with you as a person. It has nothing to do with your business. They, honestly, they might like you as a person, but that's not their primary objective. Their primary objective is to get the content or the design work or the web design or whatever it is, for the most reasonable price possible, so that they can afford to do other things as well. It's a business decision for them and it needs to be a business decision for you. That's across the board. Also, I have and, sarah, I don't know if you've ever experienced this, I've talked to so many people. It's happened to and it's happened to me all the time.

Treasa Edmond: 10:44

When you are CC'd in on an email from your client to someone else accidentally and you see how much they are paying that other person for the same thing you do and you're like, ooh, that hurts. I talked to someone last week just in a conversation about an agency that they'd worked with and they were at a rate that they thought was really good. The agency had talked them down a little bit which, by the way, I never talk down my rates, I will talk down scope, but that's the thing, that's a personal decision but anyway, the agency had talked them down on their rates. It was enough that it makes a difference. And then they accidentally got cc'd on an email three months later where they found out that they were paying another freelancer almost five times what they were paying them for the exact same thing. And it happens. Unless you stick up for your rates, no one else is going to. That's just, it's a thing.

Sarah Greesonbach: 11:42

Yeah, I've certainly been witness to in some of my coaching clients, where they see what the agency is charging the client for their work, with the agency not doing anything, and it was literally like six times as much. Yeah, it was pretty astonishing.

Treasa Edmond: 11:59

Yep and I worked with I went in-house for a while as I was pivoting so that I could start this podcast and have the space and time to do that and strategy bosses and I've been a ghostwriter for years and I charge a premium for ghostwriting now. But if someone had asked me how much would you charge for a 60 page? For years and I charge a premium for ghostwriting now but if someone had asked me how much would you charge for a 60 page ebook, I probably would have still given what I would consider a reasonable but high end reasonable rate. While I was in that in-house position, they signed a contract for an ebook 60 pages, 60 pages and they paid $50,000 for 60 pages and I'm like confidence the company, the agency that they were working with, never even blinked at giving that rate to a potential client and the clients. Obviously you're worth it and I'm like I've written this stuff for well less than this, but that's not ever happening again.

Treasa Edmond: 12:53

It's a two-part situation. It's what you're comfortable charging your clients, which in the end doesn't matter, and it's what your clients are willing to pay for high value work, and sometimes they're willing to pay way more than you thought you would, which is why I love value-based pricing. So, gage, you need to raise your rates and lose some clients. You need to do those things, and that's the only way you can get over this hurdle that you're facing. You cannot stay where you are and expect things to change. You need to raise your rates and find new clients, and maybe that means you need to go back to the drawing board on your messaging and your client outreach and change who you're reaching out to, because it might not be the companies you're currently working with.

Sarah Greesonbach: 13:38

I'd add a threat if you don't do that. To quote the rock star and philosopher Jonathan Stark it's just a race to the bottom. It's just them, pitting you against other people who would be willing to charge less, and other people might have less living expenses.

Treasa Edmond: 13:55

I think that's the first threat we've ever had on boss responses. So thank you. Thank you for bringing that to the table.

Sarah Greesonbach: 14:00

The only reason we're so emphatic about this Gage is because you freaking deserve a 20-hour client work week. Yes, two hours to just freaking, relax and go out for coffee and to make the same amount of money, like it is possible, and I think that's why we're being so grumpy about it. I think we're mad at your clients for being willing to pay what they're paying.

Treasa Edmond: 14:25

Yeah, absolutely. I'm never going to tell someone you're not charging enough as a scathing rebuke to them.

Sarah Greesonbach: 14:31

Right.

Treasa Edmond: 14:31

I'm telling you you're not charging enough because you are worth so much more than that and the value you're providing your clients is stratospherically different from what you're actually charging. So tough love in this case is actual love. It's not critical feedback. This is actually tough love because we want you to do better and sometimes you have to make the tough decisions to do that.

Sarah Greesonbach: 14:52

That's our message. We're not mean, we just love you real hard.

Treasa Edmond: 14:56

We do. That's the benefit of age and experience. We get to love money a little bit harder and we also speak from experience. So we've been where you are, We've charged those rates and now we look back at it and we're like we can't let this happen to anyone else? Yes, it's just, if we don't speak up for you, then who's going to Anything else to add to this one Sarah?

Sarah Greesonbach: 15:19

I did say I would share my waffle recipe. Yes, it's dairy-free and gluten-free, so you can sub out a couple different things, but what you'll want to do is mix one egg with three-quarters cups of your sugar of choice, preferably granulated, sometimes coconut sugar, a little bit of vanilla, a little bit of baking soda, and then we're going to do one cup of almond flour and maybe half a cup of arrowroot or tapioca flour. Mix that baby up and put it on a waffle griddle. It's going to be great.

Treasa Edmond: 15:51

There you go, folks Our first Boss Responses Threat and our first Boss Responses recipe all in the same day. So we're going to break off and have a podcast called Wes Threat and our first Boss Responses Recipe all in the same day.

Sarah Greesonbach: 15:58

So we're going to break off and have a podcast called Waffle Threat. Yes that's funny, that's awesome.

Treasa Edmond: 16:06

All right. So it's been a fun week so far and thank you so much for being here, Sarah. Tomorrow, everyone needs to tune in because we are talking about one of those topics that actually just comes really nicely after the entire week. We're going to have a pretty deep discussion on boundaries and how you can create partner relationships with your clients that will actually do more for your business than you could ever imagine.