Treasa Edmond: 0:00

Welcome back to the Boss Responses podcast. Have you ever had one of those clients who is constantly changing project scope or delaying feedback which disrupts your schedule and theirs? That's what today's question is all about. My guest host, Lizzie Davey, and I will talk about how we deal with that situation and how we prevent it from ever happening in the first place. If you're a freelancer, business owner or anyone who deals with clients, you're in the right place. I'm your host, teresa Edmond. I've been dealing with clients and running my business for nearly two decades and in that time I've dealt with my share of doubt, imposter syndrome and not knowing what to say when a client asked a question I wasn't ready for. I created this podcast to empower you with the boss responses you need to grow your business. Each week, my guest co-host and I will bring you five episodes packed with practical insights. Monday through Thursday, we answer your questions, and Fridays, we dive deep to explore how our co-hosts embrace their role as the boss of their business.

Treasa Edmond: 1:08

Welcome to Boss Responses. We are back for day two with Lizzie Davey. Lizzie, I have a question for you today. It says I've been struggling with a client who frequently changes the project scope and delays feedback, which disrupts my schedule and theirs. It has gradually become a problem as I've worked with them and now it's delaying every project. That's a nightmare. How can I manage such clients effectively without damaging the relationship? This?

Lizzie Davey: 1:36

is a really good question, and I used to really struggle with this because I am a massive people pleaser, so I would just be like, yeah, that's fine, no worries, I'll do this. Oh, you've been late with your feedback. I'll work on a Friday night, it's fine. But now that I'm working with so many clients, I find that I have to put strict boundaries in place because otherwise I'm taking time away from my other clients to focus on this client that can't keep themselves together or has no organizational skills.

Lizzie Davey: 2:06

The first stage for me is having a contract like a really solid contract that states exactly what the project includes. I also have a section in my contract that states like how much extra things we charged at if there's any potential scope creeps. And I think as writers, we see a lot of companies changing their mind after the first draft, like they want to change direction or they want to add in some more subject matter, quote, expert quotes. So for me I'm really like I have bulleted lists of everything that's included and I'm quite firm on that. And then if a client says, oh, can we do this? Can we change the angle, can we change the direction, it's much easier for me to say, oh well, as, per the contract, this will cost you x amount extra if you want to do this and we will have to push it to the end of my schedule because I'm fully booked now and I see scope creep and additional extras as a new project and I treat them as that.

Lizzie Davey: 3:00

Yes, I think the second thing is to like with the feedback, with late feedback. I put a deadline in for clients, so I say I need feedback by X date, otherwise you miss your chance to get feedback. So otherwise, that's it. I'm submitting the draft as is and I'm invoicing you for that and that's in the contract as well. So they have a deadline and I have a deadline, and if they don't stick to that, not my problem.

Treasa Edmond: 3:25

I don't know that I've ever met anyone who's more hard-nosed on this topic than I am, and that's just beautiful. And when I say hard-nosed people, this is good for your business. What Lizzie and I do, this is something you should be doing. Your clients don't run your business. You do, and you have the right, you have the responsibility to protect your space, your mental space, for your next client project. You can't let one client encroach on another, and this isn't a power thing, and I get a lot of pushback that boundaries are a power play. You're making it more difficult for your clients to work with you. You are not. Boundaries are for you. It's a line that you draw that if your client crosses it, then you have a specific set of actions that you take and that's all it is. So it's action, consequence, and I think that's really important.

Treasa Edmond: 4:16

I agree with you, though I do the same thing on project scopes and delays. Now, if someone says we've changed our mind, we want to go in a different direction, I'm like, ah, absolutely, we can do that. It's going to cost this amount and we'll have to move the date to this date. I do the exact same thing and I do ghostwriting, so project delays can delay an entire project, and I'm really really clear in my contract that if clients do not meet their deadlines, then it will move the project date back by this much every single time. So if they miss several deadlines, they could be three months behind on a project really quickly, and I go over that with them. I don't just put it in the contract, I actually go over that with them verbally to make sure that they understand it. And I agree with you, though, if you put money or a delay in their project on the table, it makes them not do what they've been doing.

Treasa Edmond: 5:13

But if you have a client who's been doing this consistently and you've not already called the behavior, you might be in for a bit of a problem. You're going to have to set a boundary and you're going to have to have an honest conversation, and it should be a face-to-face conversation. So Zoom, or at least a phone call. Do not do this in email and say, as we've worked on projects, we've come up against a bit of a wall here where I'm not getting the feedback I need in time and it's delaying the projects. I can't allow that to happen again, because it's interfering with my other clients and their projects. This is what we need to do moving forward and be willing to have that client go off the deep end and say, well, fine, we're just not working with you anymore. Sometimes rough conversations need to happen and you need to be prepared for the fact that your client's just going to leave. Have you ever had one? But just left.

Lizzie Davey: 6:07

I was just trying to think about that. Actually I don't think I have. I found that most clients don't realize they're doing I mean, they do realize they're doing it, but they don't realize what kind of impact it's having on the freelancer. I think a lot of companies treat freelancers as disposable and they're there at their beck and call whenever they need them to do something. And as soon as I've pulled out a client on that and been like it's impacting my work for other clients, basically saying you're not my only client, they've always been like absolutely, totally understand, let's work together so that we can make this process smoother. What would make your life easier? How can we do this so that it's a better working relationship for everyone? So no, I don't think I've ever lost a client from that. It has actually made some client relationships better, because when you have that discussion about how you can make the process smoother for both sides, often it leads to something that's a bit more of a compromise that's easier on both sides. So, no lost clients, yes, better working relationships. How?

Lizzie Davey: 7:10

about you have you ever lost a client?

Treasa Edmond: 7:12

I have not. I actually fired one because of this, because when I told them about it, they were pretty snippy and just said well, we pay you to do these projects for us. They actually specifically said we pay for your time so that you'll complete these projects, and then I had to educate them that you don't actually pay for my time. You're paying for me to finish a project and this was a client, though that was incredibly toxic, and we'd already had multiple conversations about how they couldn't manage the process. I didn't have to report my time to them. We did all of those things, which is a bit trickier here in the US, and that was the only one. I'm with you, though, that I view these conversations as opportunities, because I go into them and I make it a we issue. So it looks like we're having an issue with project delays and I'd like to talk to you about how we can resolve that issue. So it looks like we're having an issue with project delays and I'd like to talk to you about how we can resolve that issue, and I'm really careful to make sure they're a part of the solution.

Treasa Edmond: 8:09

I don't mandate things to my clients unless it gets really bad, and then I usually won't work with them again, so it doesn't matter, honestly, because they're not my ideal client. But that's something I do. I kind of love conversations like this, but I get them after the very first time, but I do love them because it is an opportunity for us to form more of a partnership. And you mentioned mentioning your other clients and I think that's so important and I do that. From my discovery call, I am very careful in the language I use and I talk. One of the things I like to do with my clients is ask a lot of questions at this phase so that I can more fully understand your project, and I just say my clients, I talk about my business, I'm very open with that language and it really drives home for them, before we even start working together, that I am an expert, this is my business, and it makes all the difference in how they work for me. When I started doing that, I saw an immediate difference in how my clients started interacting with me and the amount of respect that they showed when it came to my time and responses and stuff like that.

Treasa Edmond: 9:17

I think it's great. So this is an opportunity. You can either fix this relationship, or you can be ready to let it go, but you have to do something. This isn't a topic that you can just let go, because it is going to have a damaging effect on other clients' relationships and it's going to drive you crazy. Yes, that's great, all right. All right, come back for tomorrow, day three with Lizzie, and we're going to talk about dry spells and how we deal with those, and I think this is a really difficult topic and I'm looking forward to seeing what Lizzie has to say about it. See you tomorrow.